Blog Entry

2012 Baseball Hall of Fame voting breakdown

Posted on: January 9, 2012 3:19 pm
Edited on: January 9, 2012 4:34 pm
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By Matt Snyder


Barry Larkin was voted into the Baseball Hall of Fame with 86.4 percent of the vote. The results of the BBWAA votes were revealed Monday afternoon, and Larkin was the only player garnering the required 75 percent of the vote for enshrinement.

There were 573 total ballots, but nine were left blank. Players may remain on the ballot for 15 years, unless they fall below the five percent barrier in voting. Those who get less than five percent of the vote will be removed from the ballot prior to next year's vote.

Here's a total breakdown of how the voting went for the other 26 candidates. First, these guys will remain on the ballot moving forward:

Jack Morris - 382 votes (66.7 percent)
Jeff Bagwell - 321 (56)
Lee Smith - 290 (50.6)
Tim Raines - 279 (48.7)
Edgar Martinez - 209 (36.5)
Alan Trammell - 211 (36.8)
Fred McGriff - 137 (23.9)
Larry Walker - 131 (22.9)
Mark McGwire - 112 (19.5)
Don Mattingly - 102 (17.8)
Dale Murphy - 83 (14.5)
Rafael Palmeiro - 72 (12.6)
Bernie Williams - 55 (9.6)

Hall of Fame ballot
Now, the following players will be removed from the ballot, as they didn't get five percent of the vote:

Juan Gonzalez - 23 votes (four percent)
Vinny Castilla - 6 (1)
Tim Salmon - 5 (0.9)
Bill Mueller - 4 (0.5)
Brad Radke - 2 (0.3)
Javy Lopez - 1 (0.2)
Eric Young - 1 (0.2)
Jeromy Burnitz - 0
Brian Jordan - 0
Terry Mulholland - 0
Phil Nevin - 0
Ruben Sierra - 0
Tony Womack - 0

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Comments

Since: Nov 25, 2010
Posted on: January 31, 2012 1:26 pm
 

2012 Baseball Hall of Fame voting breakdown

Thank you, Cesar.

I have seen a few decades of baseball (it kinda pains me to say "a few decades" - ouch!  I'm getting old).

I'm in Michigan so I definitely am a Tigers fan.  That said, I still find it a tragedy that Murphy isn't in the HoF.  Thing is, based on "current membership" - Jack Morris should be in, too.  They shouldn't even have to think twice about these guys.  There are players enshrined that only PLAYED 12 seasons.  That being the case, how can they say that Murphy didn't have enough great years?  And one, in particular, of the 12-year players is an outfielder that maybe had one league-leading stat his whole career.  Murphy had quite a few league-leading stats over his career.  Just curious why Murphy is judged by standards outside of everyone else when it comes to HoF election.  Either they're overlooking a lot of what he did (or just don't know) - or they are, indeed, holding him to a different standard.  Again, I am basing this all on current membership of the HoF.





Since: Sep 9, 2009
Posted on: January 19, 2012 8:27 pm
 

2012 Baseball Hall of Fame voting breakdown

TA79---

You are obviously a dedicated baseball fan, that has seen games in more than a couple of decades.  And I realize this thread has morphed a bit from the original postings.  Going back and reading several pages of these from the beginning, I am surprised by the amount of lack of Dale Murphy endorsements I've seen here.  I can only conclude that its a young set of posters.  I had to 5-star several of your early posts.  Even for non-believers, I thought you made very compelling arguments. 

I am a big Jack Morris fan -especially from his days with the Tigers.  And that's not to take away from his days with the Blue Jays.  I was glad you mentioned Fernando.  I saw him a few times, live, when he was wrapping things up for himself with the Phillies.  He was exciting on the mound and at the plate.  Guys like Rick Wise and Ken Brett certainly weren't HOFs.  But they sure could hit the ball. 



Since: Sep 6, 2006
Posted on: January 13, 2012 9:48 am
 

2012 Baseball Hall of Fame voting breakdown

Great list.  Carlton and Niekro, both Hall of Famers, had their best years in the 60s and 70s, though Carlton did win the Cy Young in 80 and 82, and finished 3rd in 81 (I would argue that his numbers were better than the actual winner that year, Valenzuela, but what is the point). 

Guidry had his best years in the 70s, but was very good in the early 80s, but did not last the decade due to elbow issues. 

Viola and Saberhagen were better, more dominant, than Morris, but neither lasted as long. 

IMO, the Hall of Fame is about dominance and longevity.  Morris did not dominate.  He had 1 great WS, 1 very good WS, and 1 god awful WS.  He never was the leader on those teams in ERA and WHIP...usually 2nd or 3rd.  Yes, he won more games, but that is a team concept...and if you still want to hold that number near and dear to your heart, in 84, when he won 19 games, the 2nd and 3rd winningest pitchers on that team won 17 and 18, both had better winning percentages (he lost 11 to their 8 each), he was 2nd in WHIP (though he and Wilcox, the #3 in that stat, were separated by .004), he was 3rd in ERA in that rotation...that is not even dominance over his own teammates.

In 1991 he was 2nd on his team in wins, 3rd in ERA and 3rd in WHIP...he wasn't even the ace on that team, Scott Erickson was.  And Erickson won 2 more games in 3 less starts.  I will argue that Morris was the 3rd best SP on that team in the regular season (numbers don't lie).  He was the best pitcher in the postseason, but does that make him a Hall of Famer?  If it does, then lets put Don Larson in the Hall too.

In 1992, when the Blue Jays won, he did lead the league in wins, but with a 4.04 ERA...again, as usual, 3rd in WHIP and 3rd in ERA on his own team among starters....and actually, 4th in both when you add in David Cone who was a late season acquisition and provided them with 8 starts.  His numbers (both in NY and in Toronto) were better than Morris'.  Cone, 17-10, 2.51 ERA, 250 IP, 241 Ks, 1.250 WHIP, Morris was 21-6, 4.04 ERA, 241 IP, 132 Ks, 1.255 WHIP.  Cone was simply better.  Their WHIPs were nearly identical, but Cone was slightly better, and judging by his ERA, he was able to minimize damage when runners did get on.  And Morris was an ugly 0-3 with a 7.43 ERA in the playoffs.

So he was never dominating.  Not in the way that Seaver, Ryan, Carlton were throughout their careers, or Viola and Saberhagen were for many years, just not long enough to merit HoF consideration (same with Valenzuela and Gooden).  All of those pitchers except Nolan Ryan won Cy Youngs.  By Ryan is the alltime K leader in history, had over 300 wins, and an ERA almost a full run less than Morris' over his career.  He also led the league in Ks 11 times in his career, the last time being at age 43, and at age 42 he struck out over 300...that is dominance.  Morris was a good pitcher.  Very good at times.  Dominated in some big games.  But good pitchers don't belong in the Hall.  Great Pitchers do.  If he ever goes in they should burn down the building, because it isn't worth a darn then.




Since: Nov 25, 2010
Posted on: January 12, 2012 5:11 pm
 

2012 Baseball Hall of Fame voting breakdown

I don't have a big problem with Morris being in the Hall but I think Clemens and Gooden were the best pitchers of the 80's.  Morris was the workhorse and they were the standouts.  I also won't deny Morris' big-game tenacity.  No question about that and not trying to diminish anything he accomplished.  He's one of my favorite pitchers.

Jack Morris:  162-119 (57.65%), 3.66 ERA, 1,629 K's, 133 CG's, 20 Shutouts, 4x All-Star.

Roger Clemens:  95-45 (67.86), 3.06 ERA, 1,215 K's, 58 CG's, 21 Shutouts, MVP, 2x Cy Young, 2x All-Star

Dwight Gooden:  100-39 (71.94), 2.64 ERA, 1,168 K's, 52 CG's, 19 Shutouts, Pitcher's Triple Crown, Rookie of the Year, Cy Young, 4x All-Star, Silver Slugger

In addition, there were some other pitchers with pretty decent '80's stats.

Dave Stieb:  140-109 (56.22), 3.32 ERA, 1,380 K's, 1 Save, 92 CG's, 27 Shutouts, 6x All-Star

Fernando Valenzuela:  128-103 (55.41), 3.20 ERA, 1,644 K's, 2 Saves, 102 CG's, 27 Shutouts, Cy Young, Rookie of the Year, 6x All-Star, Gold Glove, 2x Silver Slugger

Nolan Ryan:  122-104 (53.98), 3.14 ERA, 2,167 K's, 3x All-Star

Phil Niekro:  100-83 (54.64), 3.93 ERA, 940 K's, 1 Save, 2x All-Star, 3x Gold Glove

I'm getting lazy and this is by no means a complete list but these guys also put up some numbers in the 80's:

Ron Guidry, Bob Welch, Jim Clancy, Bert Blyleven, Mark Langston, Rick Sutcliffe, Rick Reuschel, Steve Carlton, Lamar Hoyt, Mario Soto, Danny Darwin, Dan Petry, Dennis Eckersley, Charlie Hough, Dave Stewart, John Tudor, Frank Viola, Mike Scott, Bob Welch, Tommy John, Bret Saberhagen, Orel Hershiser, Rick Rhoden, Scott Sanderson, Shane Rawley, Ron Darling, Bob Ojeda, etc.



Since: Mar 19, 2008
Posted on: January 11, 2012 1:15 pm
 

2012 Baseball Hall of Fame voting breakdown

Prove it Wiseguy1991. When did Bagwell test positive for any drug, performance enhancing or otherwise? Your rediculous blanket statement is ignorant and unfounded. I am an Astros fan but his numbers speak for themselves especially playing most of his career in the Astordome. He was also an elite firstbaseman



Since: Sep 16, 2006
Posted on: January 11, 2012 10:30 am
 

2012 Baseball Hall of Fame voting breakdown

To those who said Larkin was never the best player on his own team, do you even look at statistics or just type whatever someone else spoon feeds you?  Eric Davis was the stud of the Reds from 1986-1990 seasons although the most games he ever played  during that stretch was 135 (which coincidentally is one of the knocks Larkin haters always harp on - "always" getting injured).  Larkin debuted in 1986 and was solid from day one.  Through the 90s Barry Larkin WAS the Reds and the most dominant SS in the NL.  Some would argue he was as good as Ripken although they were two different types of players - Larkin being the all-around do everything and anything player while Ripken was "The Iron Man" primarily - never missing a game, solid defensively with sure hands and known as a power hitting SS with stone squares for wheels.  

Stop hating and give a well deserved congratulations to Larkin... 



Since: Sep 6, 2006
Posted on: January 11, 2012 9:44 am
 

2012 Baseball Hall of Fame voting breakdown

 It's a joke that guys like Blyleven and Sutton are in over a much better pitcher like Morris.
Then you don't know stats or baseball Marinoisgod.  Blyleven has better postseason stats (5-1, a full run lower ERA) than Morris, better ERA for his career, retired as the #3 guy of alltime for strikeouts, and despite playing on bad teams for half of his career, he has more wins and 2 rings.  Sutton actually was a lot like Morris, a very good pitcher who played a long time for good teams...but Sutton had 2 things that Morris did not....3000 Ks and 300 wins.  Show me a pitcher with both who is not in the Hall.  Heck, show me a pitcher that has 1 of those 2 things.  BTW, Morris had neither 3000 Ks nor 300 wins.  And Morris, the best "big game pitcher" as you called him, was 0-3 with a 7.43 ERA in the 1992 postseason (when his team won the WS, but he did nothing to help them in the playoffs, obviously).  He did have that one really great game in the postseason the year before, but 1 game doesn't make a HoF career....see Don Larson, who had the best big game in the HISTORY of MLB.

You know, its funny, you are talking about the importance of big game play, yet your screen name is Marinoisgod, which I assume references Dan Marino, who always came up small when the chips were down...now that I put it in perspective, he reminds me of Donovan McNabb...I mean, Marino was absolutely better, but in big games, he and McNabb were the same....kind of funny.



Since: Dec 19, 2006
Posted on: January 10, 2012 11:48 pm
 

2012 Baseball Hall of Fame voting breakdown

I'll bite...who?  Consider only pitchers who threw innings throughout the 1980s, not guys who logged starts for a couple of years at the beginning or end of the decade.
If you're only going to consider pitchers who threw innings in every single year of the decade he is up there.  I would say Ryan is definitely better but I think I decent argument could be made for Stieb and Valenzuela. 

However, I think part of why we are even having this conversation is that Jack Morris peaked from 1979-1992.  No doubt he put together a great career.  But because of the fact he peaked during those specific years, he really is known by many as "the pitcher of the 80's."  If he had instead peaked from 1984-1997, for example, I don't think we'd even be having this conversation.  So much more emphasis is placed on his career just because almost all of those peak years took place in seasons that began with "198".

Gooden, Clemens, Hershiser, and Mark Langston (off the top of my head) were better in the 1980s.  They just didn't start until the decade was under way.

Anyways, like I said before, I don't think Morris is necessarily a bad HOF vote.  In fact, I think he's a better vote than a few pitchers who have been elected over the last few years.  I just don't think he would get mine.



Since: Nov 6, 2006
Posted on: January 10, 2012 10:13 pm
 

2012 Baseball Hall of Fame voting breakdown

I agree with you that Jack Morris should be in theHOF but you could argue just in the 80's for Gooden.  That's why Morris apparently is stuck.  He was the best big game pitcher in his generation but he doesn't have that monster stat year.  He doesn't really have any monster stats except maybe for postseason.  It's a joke that guys like Blyleven and Sutton are in over a much better pitcher like Morris.



Since: Jan 2, 2007
Posted on: January 10, 2012 2:00 pm
 

2012 Baseball Hall of Fame voting breakdown

very few people would consider Jack Morris the best pitcher of the 80's.  He had the most wins in years that begin with 198, but there were several pitchers who were statistically better during that period.
I'll bite...who?  Consider only pitchers who threw innings throughout the 1980s, not guys who logged starts for a couple of years at the beginning or end of the decade.  The only guys who I can think are in the conversation for best pitcher of the 1980s would be Nolan Ryan, Dave Stieb, and maybe Fernando Valenzuela -- but Valenzuela faded by 1987/88.

Steve Carlton fell apart after 1986.  Greg Maddux didn't arrive on the scene until 1986.  Roger Clemens didn't start his first game until 1984, but you could argue he was dominant starting in 1990-- that's when it really clicked for him statistically.

For starting pitchers, Jack Morris was in the top three for the entire decade.  I'll argue he was the 2nd best after Nolan Ryan with Dave Stieb running close in 3rd place. 


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